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tv   Piers Morgan Tonight  CNN  June 4, 2011 3:00am-4:00am EDT

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that's amazing. and who's this? >> this is rob, the juggling clown. >> thank you very much. wow. >> you may be seated. >> wow. >> so we brought you a cake. we know these are your favorite. >> yes, these are cream puffs, where are they from? >> i have no idea. >> what is it? tonight, shocking developments in the casey anthony trial. what she said when she lost control in a jailhouse visit from her parents. what the fascination about this case says about america. plus, john edwards indicted. >> i will regret for the rest of my life the pain and the harm that i have caused.
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but i did not break the law. and i never ever thought i was breaking the law. >> what happens now, how strong is the case against him. take you inside the defense. then -- listed the hottest woman in movies. she's hot, sassy, and very sexy. you are my kind of girl. >> oh, god! >> the romanced some of hollywood's biggest on screen and off. ellen barken -- >> you're good at this, you know? and you do it with such a light, easy way. one might even forget oneself and answer your questions. >> edie falco played some of the toughest women on television. a soprano, nurse jackie. wait until you see her in real life. >> you're scheming. >> it's my job. >> not yet, the night is young.
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>> this is piers morgan tonight. a big day and a big week in a case that's transfixed america, casey anthony on trial for her life, charged with murdering her 2-year-old daughter, caylee. shocking recorders in open court. jailhouse conversations between casey anthony and her parents. listen as her parents lose control. >> i'm completely -- >> not trying to get you upset. i'm trying to talk to you. >> but i am upset now. i'm completely upset. one the media is going to have a freaking field day with this. i wasn't even supposed to take this. let me speak for a second, dad, i let everybody talk. they're not releasing it. i hope not. i keep saying whatever i have to. >> let me respond -- >> can someone let me -- god. >> casey -- hold on, sweetheart. settle down. >> nobody's letting me speak. you want me to talk. and --
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>> all right. i'll listen. >> give me three seconds to say something. >> go, sweetheart. >> i'm not in control over any of this because i don't know what the hell is going on. i don't know what's going on. my entire life has been taken from me. >> the latest on this case is nancy grace of our sister network, hln. extraordinary recordings there. and it kind of explains, i i think, why this case is capturing the interest of america. she seems so ordinary, this girl. she doesn't seem like your average psychopathic killer. and it's that, i think, it's the sheer or ordinariness. she can be the girl next door. is it that that's drawing so much attention. >> as a matter of fact, piers, an excellent observation. thank you for having me. number two, we have just come out of the courthouse where we have been watching all day long as tapes like this one and many, many others are pouring in to evidence and the jury is actually transfixed.
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as a matter of fact, at one point, the judge said, do you guys want to go home today, and they're like, no, we'll keep watching. they are transfixed on all of this. this is what we have learned. at one point, she says, i'm the victim. in other words, she's the victim, not caylee. she loses control, goes viral, and rants on her parents about no one's listening to her. at one point, piers, the theory of an accidental drowning comes up and tot mom totally shrugs it off sarcastically as if it means nothing, but yet all of this is blowing a torpedo into the defense opening statement. they want us to believe that george anthony molested tot mom and therefore could not tell the truth. that there was an accidental drowning, and that father george discarded the body like trash in a makeshift pet cemetery in a densely wooded area.
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we are hearing the jailhouse tapes, we see what was really going on behind the scenes, piers. >> if i was looking at this dispassionately and i was a lawyer prosecutoring, i would think this is over and dub. what you have is a clear case, it seems to me, of a mother who is just mad keen on selfish pleasure and partying and came out with outrageous lies about her family. that seems to me and almost every observer that i talked to. >> that is how it's playing out. but under the law, under american law, there is a theory called felony murder. if you commit a felony -- say a bank robbery. and you don't intend a death to occur. but a death occurs in a felony, that equals murder in our country. so in this case, pursuant to this accidental death with
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chloroform, computer searches way back in march, caylee goes missing in june, tot mom is looking up how to make homemade chloroform, how to break someone's neck. how to turn house hold items to weapons. if she was using chloroform as a babysitter, chloroform in caylee so she can go to sleep and tot mom went to party and caylee die in that matter, it would still be felony murdered and aggravated assault. but the state is alleging something far more nefarious. they're saying that the murder weapon is not the glor form but the duct tape bound across the child's mouth and nose. >> would you advocate the death penalty in this case, nancy? >> this is my feeling on the death penalty, there are certain cases that are so heinous that option should be offered to a jury. then it is up to a jury to determine what will be justice.
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in this case, justice for caylee. in this case we see tot mom as a cold-hearted and callus killer according to the police. i don't know if the jury is going to agree with that. it depends really on what the defense does. i know they don't have a burden to prove anything. but if tot mom takes the stand and let's just say makes a touchdown, she may get a lesser included offense like voluntary manslaughter. >> thank you very much. now i want to turn to the big political story of the day which is the john edwards case, the former senator, vice presidential nominee, and presidential candidate which reduced in standing in front of reporters and insisting that he didn't break the law. that came after a federal grand jury indicted him for using campaign funds to buy the silence of his mistress. if he's convicted, edwards can face up to 30 years behind bars. how good is the government's case? joining me now is melanie sloan, executive director of citizens
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responsibility and ethics in washington and alan derschowiz. let me start with you, al derschowiz, this is a fall from grace for a man who could have been three or four years ago president of this country. are we going to see john edwards facing a trial for which he could be convicted here? >> he'll face a trial unless his lawyers plea bargain. this is a sleazy indictment. this reads more like an expose from the ""national enquirer"" than a legal document. it's filled with this stuff about the personal immorality and personal life, much of which is very irrelevant and very short on legal analysis and legal theory. for example, it says that part of the reason for the payment was to, quote, to facilitate the extra-marital affair. to facilitate the affair. what does it have to do with the campaign or making him president?
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and it quotes the law as saying that it doesn't cover payments that would be made irrespective of the candidacy. his defense is going to be that these are friends who were protecting him from exposure because he didn't want his wife suffering from cancer to find out about it. the payments would have been made even if he wasn't running for office. this doesn't do justice to the united states and to the justice department. there are better things to do with prosecutorial discretion than this sleazy indictment. >> melanie sloan, is it as simple as that. because the crux of this matter seems to be this money given to john edward primarily by an elderly lady who donated cash was going to harbor this mistress away from prying media eyes. it really comes down to is that a campaign donation. because the reason he was doing this, yes, it was partly to prevent mrs. edwards from finding out.
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but it was partly to protect his position as a potential presidential candidate. so, in that sense, it is a donation to help him politically, isn't it? >> that's certainly what the prosecution is going to argue here. but i don't think there's any case for that. campaign contribution has never been defined that broadly to allow a wealthy person who wants to donate to a politician's mistress, give money to a politician's mistress to say that's a campaign contribution. i think it's a huge stretch and there's literally no precedent in the law. you have to wonder why the justice department was so eager to take on this case when so recently it dropped the case from john ensign, the senator from nevada who lied to the fec about a $96,000 severance payment made to a former mistress.
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so there's really something incomprehensible about the strategy at the department of justice. >> al derschowiz, greg craig, the attorney for edward, goes along for what you said, an unprecedented prosecution, an unprecedented civil case. no one should have known or should have known or could have been expected to know that these payments would be treated as campaign contributions. is it as clear cut as that? do you think? >> i think he's right. craig is a great, great lawyer. edwards is lucky to have him. this is a criminal statute. you have to read them narrowly. you can't be create in the criminal law. it has to be clear -- thomas jefferson once said the criminal law has to be so clear that you can understand it if you read it while running. now, you read the statute and it just doesn't seem to cover this conduct. and creativity has no role in the justice system. i would hope greg craig would get it dismissed before it gets
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to a trial. it will be a hard case for the defense because edwards is so unsympathetic because the indictment is so filled with irrelevancies about his personal life and about things that are way germane to the statute where the courts have to say early, no, we're not going to let the case go to the jury because the jury may be prejudice to the surrounding atmospherics. it's not the way the criminal justice system works. if it can be done against edwards, whom many people do not like, the same broad application, accordian application can be used against any american. it was used against bill clinton and used against dick armey, a republican on the right. i don't like it when it's used against republicans. i don't like it when it's used against democrats. i think it's political issue that should be kept in the
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political realm and out of the courts. >> you both seem in agreement, this is unprecedented and pretty well unfair on john edwards. is there a political undertone to this? has this decision been taken for political reasons, do you think? >> i think that's a legitimate question. a u.s. attorney who's a holdover from the bush administration who's kept on, in fact, so he could continue on with this investigation is the person who's handled this matter and now he's the person who's taking on this incredibly novel indictment, and by the way, he's a former staffer for jesse helms, the famous conservative senator from north carolina. now if he would not have been allowed to proceed with the case, if it hasn't gone to indictment, if the higher ups at justice would have said, you have no case, then he would have screamed and the right would have screamed it was political. the obama administration shut down this investigation in order to help john edwards. which is, of course, laughable
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because there's no person in america who's sympathetic to john edwards. but being unsympathetic to john edwards who by in definition a louse does not mean his conduct was criminal. >> once it was said that the worst laws are made when they go after s.o.b.s, people who nobody likes because it's so easy to get convictions against people nobody likes. but then, those precedents lie around like a loaded gun and can be used by any political administration against any unpopular candidate. >> i have to leave it there unfortunately. a fascinating case. i share your misgivings about the reasons for this. i think if it does go to trial, he doesn't stand a chance for the reasons you both said. thank you both very much. coming up next, ellen berken. her life, her loves, and her journey from hollywood to broadway.
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what do you think of screen sirens, i think ellen berken. she's done more than 40 hollywood films. back where she belongs in the hometown of new york storming it in broadway in a part, an astonishing role that earned her a nomination. ellen barken, before we go any further, this is a picture of
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you at some event. when i saw this, i thought it was cameron diaz. >> or maybe cameron diaz's mother. >> no. >> cameron diaz. someone gave me research notes on you. i hate to be ungentlemanly. there's a reason i do this. it says you're 57 years old. >> i don't find that ungentlemanly. i was 54 then. >> you look like cameron diaz's sister. >> yes. it's something i heard when she first appeared in "the mask." a little girl in the "the mask" that looks just like you. >> i want to read you a quote out of "people" magazine. it's hard to look at ellen barken without thinking about sex. a voice that sounds like velvet rubbed the wrong way and enough sensuality to set your tie on fire.
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when you read that about yourself, no pressure, but blimy. >> i don't read that about myself. i usually don't. >> "people" magazine said that about you. >> i like that. >> did you see yourself as a se siren? >> no. >> really? >> well. no. you have to be identified as something. and i think because the movie that kind of bumped my career up was a -- i guess a sexy movie, "sea of love," so that's what i became. >> what do you think of the aging process? you hate it? >> i don't hate it. it's not my favorite thing in the world. i'd rather be -- >> what's the worst thing about it? >> you know the worst thing about it is saying the number. i'd be much happier saying 47.
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>> there a lot of women at 57 looking at you right now thinking, well, you shouldn't be complaining. you look amazing. >> because i -- you know, i have professional people take care of me and i don't look like this when i wake up. and also, it is my job. if i were a ballet dancer, i would be practicing my dance routines every day at -- you know, you have to stay in shape and you have to focus on what you look like. you're on a big fat movie screen. you have to kind of keep it together a little bit. >> your teacher said you weren't pretty enough, their quotes. you had little talent and no spark. >> no spark. >> no spark? >> i know. but i had a little talent. which i clung to. >> does it make you laugh now? >> yes, it does. >> it must be satisfying. >> it makes me laugh now. but i do have to say there were ten years between the age of 15 and maybe 25 that it didn't make me laugh.
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i mean, i was unable to go for an audition until i was 25 years old. and i was studying acting regularly through high school and college and -- but i couldn't audition for anything. >> why? >> they completely crushed me. i was way too insecure. and i guess -- you know, 15, you're young, you're not formed. it's -- you know, you're only just finding out who you are barely. >> the irony, of course, in this amazing role, must have been unimaginable, one of the great roles of your career, all of the reviews i'd read say incredible talent, beautiful, and most of all, amazing spark. so this terrible prophesy of these people that dented you for so long. you are the last laugh, don't you. >> you could look at it that way. >> you do too, don't you? >> a little bit.
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sometimes i think i just get angry and i think who else are they doing this to? and are there still kids -- they're saying this to. and i know why they said it. i didn't have a straight nose. i had had my two front teeth knocked out as a 10-year-old. so i still had broken teeth. i had squinty eyes. i didn't fit their idea of what pretty was. and so i understand why they were discouraging. i don't understand why they were mean and cruel. >> no, completely unacceptable. let's watch a little clip from the movie that exploded you and certainly to my consciousness which is from the "big easy" with dennis quaid. my favorite scene. >> you think of me? even now that was --
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>> that wasn't a clip. that was just a kissing scene. >> well, let's find out what you thought about a scene before we explore this further because you did tell my predecessor, larry king, what you thought of this. let's watch a clip of that. >> i don't think it's the hardest thing to do. i like them. >> for a while? >> i don't think i'm supposed to be turned on. i think what happens when we're doing sex scenes is we think, we're out of the movie, this is real, this is sex, we're really having sex. you're not. it's a scene like any other scene. and in some way, i find them very freeing.
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larry looked almost as perturbed as i am. you were going for it. >> i did find it freeing, a lot, at the time. >> really? >> i don't know how i feel about it now. but -- >> can you imagine doing a scene like that now? >> yeah, of course, why not? >> no reason. no. >> look, i think that it -- here's how i think about it. if, for me, anyway, acting is a very i want mate art. and it involves the telling of secrets. now, when are we most exposed and telling our deepest secrets? when we're most intimate, when we're having sex. so i always see it as a wonderful opportunity to reveal aspects of a character. >> does it help when you have a
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hunk like dennis quaid. >> it helps when it's dennis quaid. doesn't hurt. >> whole generations of people like me have grown up remembering every second wishing we were dennis quaid. >> really, i wish everybody wished they were me. because it was -- >> i have to say. >> not you. >> okay. no. i think you're on a movie set and you're acting with someone and you do get along. i've hardly had any bad experiences with actors. >> who's the sexiest man you ever have been with. name one. >> i couldn't. >> you know who it is, i can tell. i can tell. you're thinking of one guy right now. back after the break. you're going to get it for this. >> i'm going to lie.
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>> i know. what -- what, no, no, not here. i could lose my job. >> oh, doesn't the forbidden make it seem so much more pleasurable to you. >> no, i can't be free with myself in mr. wayne's villa. is there another room. >> somewhere, somewhere where we can go where we can be alone.
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please, abbey. take me. >> okay, come with me. >> now that was a scene from "oceans 13" which paired you with matt damon. i had him sitting where you are. and i can probably comfortably say you eve not had a fling with him because he's one of the most happily married guy i've met in my life. four girls. >> four girls. >> in answer to my question before the break, now that i'm thinking about, who is the one. >> my ex-husband, gabriel burne. >> you're being diplomatic. >> we had a very graphic sex scene. i can say that. >> tell me about your ex. you had a very nice ex. >> you go to each other's homes and birthdays. you celebrate with all of your kids on their birthdays. >> he came to my opening night. i go to his. >> he cried on your opening night. >> he was very moved by the play. very moved. >> how have you managed to do this?
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>> well, we're both very sane people, i think. we raised two children together that -- and that was our first commitment. and we knew we -- we had to do that. and i think also i would have to say i think that we never forgot why we fell in love. >> i like this quote you said once -- when you fall in love with someone, they are reasons. they don't disappear. >> they don't. >> i like that line. >> yeah. >> but it's hard to remember them in the antagonism in divorce. >> we didn't have antagonism. we always liked each other. we liked each other before we were married and we continued to like each other. and i think there is an enormous amount of mutual respect. >> he's never remarried, right? oh. >> no. >> and you're single. >> yes. >> you like each other still? meet up at parties, a couple of kids. you getting where i'm going here? wouldn't it just be easier?
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>> easier? i don't believe in easy. >> i can see in your eyes, you're thinking what i'm thinking. >> you're reading so much into it. >> is it unthinkable that you could get back together? >> we had a wonderful eight, ten years together. we had two fabulous children. and we are -- >> that wasn't the question. >> you're very probing. >> yeah, but i'm curious. >> you're good at this, you know? you do it with such a light easy way, one might even forget oneself and answer your question. >> i don't think you need to. >> but being a 30-something-year veteran because i'm 57, the number i hate to say but i will, i know better. >> let's come back after the break when you have time to collect your thoughts.
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back now well len barken. before we move on to this fascinating area of discussion, i want to read you one question. i go out -- it's about dating. i go out with men. you think, why am i here? this is a great dinner. why are we having dinner. why don't we just go home. isn't there a more important question. let's see if the sex thing works then we can have dinner. you are my kind of a girl.
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>> oh, god! >> don't answer that. let's move on. >> no, i can answer that. it is true, right? like i think we have the whole thing backwards. like first you go to dinner. then if you like each other, you have several more dinners and then you find out you're not sexually compatible. >> better to start off -- >> exactly. >> that's the big question, right? because clearly if you're not sexually compatible. >> no point wasting the dinners. >> exactly. so i say get the sex thing out of the way and then see if all of the other pieces work. >> do you still operate under that same system. >> uh -- i plea the fifth. >> let's move on to this play. it's setting the world on -- some of the reviews, slam dunk, "broadway debbie" bringing down the house. you called it the proudest performance of your career.
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members of my staff said the entire audience was in tears, never mind that, members of your own troup are in tears. an incredible tour deforce. tell me about the role. >> it's a tour deforce for all of us, really. and i think that part of the reason i am so proud of it is because it's a very important profound play. it was performed first in 1985. it's about the early days of the aids epidemic. and when all of it was just happening. >> you play this with a fire brand doctor who can see this is a terrible thing and no one know what is to do about it. they're demonizing it and so on. she isn't going to accept this. >> she just has a feeling. and she's right. you know? she was a very intelligent
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woman. she was a hematologist/oncologist. she started to see some of the first cases. and it fit all of the patterns. she also had a personal connection in that she had polio. her name was dr. linda labenstein. all of the characters are based on real people. she had a personal connection to what it means to get belled by a virus. >> you know who people who died from aids? >> certainly? >> many? >> uh-huh. >> if you lived in hollywood? >> i live in new york. yes. >> a lot of people? >> yes. >> in the business. >> yes. >> it was a terrible thing. >> yes. >> for a long time. the optimism about aids is it would appear statistically the battle is being slowly won. do you think that's the case? >> the battle is not being won. which is why i'm so proud to be part of this play now because i think it's more important than
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ever that people are reminded. there is no cure. it seems to me that governments have stopped looking for a cure because the industry -- the pharmaceutical industry, is making a fortune off of these drugs that are just barely keeping people alive. they are very expensive and not affordable to anyone. and i do think that, look, the pharmaceutical industry, you know, you don't -- i can't even get started about it. but i think when they have something that's as profitable as this, really, don't they slow it down a little because the cure is going to just stop their money flow? and i think, you know, what's there not to get angry about? >> something so passionate, so visceral, such an amazing connection with an audience night-after-night, how do you go from that to a movie set doing something that will inevitably be so trivial by comparison.
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>> sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. i have a movie coming out in the fall that i'm very passionate about. >> what is that? >> it's called another happy day. i act in it well enbernsten and demi moore, kate bosworth. i produced it as well. there's a good thing about my final act. like i seem to be doing things that i really care about. and that feels good. >> if you could write your epitaph, what would it be? do -- >> jeez. you write your own tombstone. the last thing you're going to write is that's it. >> that's something i never thought about in my life. >> now's your chance. >> on the whole i'd rather be in philadelphia? >> yes. i'd rather be in philadelphia. >> ellen barkin. >> thank you so much. >> this is wonderful. >> thank you.
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the star of "nurse jackie" and "the sopranos," and ellen barkin's competition for the tony award. edie falco is next.
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you know edie falco from "the sopranos" and "nurse jackie." accomplished one, not two, but four emmys.
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two golden globes, three screen actor guild awards. now nominated for a tony in her role for "house of blues." sorry, overexcited. "house of blue leaves." >> you know edie falco from "the sopranos" and "nurse jackie," accomplished actress who won not one, not two, but four emmys, two golden globes, three actors guild awards and two actor guild awards. i'm sorry, you're always going to be carmella to me. nothing you can ever do about it. >> your loss, i guess. >> it is my loss. i'm not going to see your plays or watch the movies. or see other tv stuff. >> thank you. >> when i heard you coming in, i'm like, this is carmella. part of my life. >> that's flattering, i suppose? >> it's nice, it's nice. it means people watched it, people liked it, i hope. that's how i translate it. >> four years. i want to play a clip from it. that's how i remind you of the role you left behind. you clearly are fed up with it. >> i'm sorry. >> the past year, i have been dreaming and fantasiing and in love with furio. >> what? >> every morning when he'd come
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to pick you up, i would look forward to it all night long in bed next to you. those nights when you were actually in the bed. and he would ring the doorbell, i felt like my heart would come out of my chest. he would smile and we'd talk. and then you would come down the stairs. and i felt probably like someone who was terminally ill and somehow they managed to forget it for a minute. then it all comes back. >> oh, yes. >> what do you think when you see that? >> i remember jim punching the wall behind me and being a little concerned for my well being. >> he is a gentle guy in real life. >> he is. >> weird watching him smashing holes in a wall. >> we all have many sides to us. he's kind and generous. he's a very lovely guy. >> just reading about you. >> oh, god. >> it seems to me a strange
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contradiction for you which you wrestled with which is it was one of the great parts as an actress, you dream, you get, incredible. the downside is it propelled you to a level of fame that you weren't comfortable with, didn't want, probably still hate. and you can't return that tap off. one of the odd things i thought about it was you play this incredible wife in the show, one of the great wives of television history, i would argue, not wanting to oversell this. and yet you've never been a wife yourself. >> right. >> why? >> why did i play her? or why have i never been a wife? >> why have you never been a wife? >> life turned out so differently than i thought it would. i never thought about how it would go. >> i have a great quote. i'm not sad about my life. it's unconventional. doesn't look anything like i thought it would. how did you imagine your life would look. >> you see the way things go in your family. my cousins, have kids and they're married and many of them
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for many years already. i assumed that would happen. i found the thing that i lov and that's where i've been racing towards, you know? and everything else was put in the back seat. >> you think you'll ever get married one day? >> i never thought i'd have kids. >> would you like to? >> what's happening right now. >> i'm asking you a question. >> would i like to be married? i don't know. >> did you envy your friends who are married or not? >> no, i don't in all honesty. >> in terms of your acting career, you could have taken the easy money that came after "sopranos." you chose not to. challenging roles. an incredible array of awards, you're a brilliant actress. >> thank you. >> when we go on a short break, i want to talk about two battles you fought against addiction and against cancer. >> i'll be here. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.
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this isn't about me. >> take a look at this stuff, kevin. [ bleep ] muscle relaxers. half the [ bleep ] on here is school supplies. unless you want to buy the generic crap, which i don't.
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>> i am not talking about ear drops. >> we've got vicodin, ambien. my body is falling apart. what do you want from me? call the cops! >> that was edie falco. why are you laughing? >> there's not much left with the bleeps. truth be told. >> what i like about it is it's so obviously apparent to a viewer you must have been through something so similar, and you've had. you've been clean for nearly 20 years. but when you played the role, how much was absolutely you when you were going through addiction? >> actually, my situation was very different from her. first of all, i was never a pills person. and i -- you know, i was very quiet about what i was going through. nobody knew about it, and i was surrounded by a lot of people who had it worse than i did.
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and everyone has a different level of tolerance for how bad things can get. >> yours was alcohol? >> alcohol, yeah. i mean, a lot of people were sort of surprised even that i had a problem, because had they known, they would have had to look at their own drinks. >> ever miss alcohol? >> i don't actually. >> you took on cancer, you had no choice, and you're a survivor. do you feel you've beaten it? is that part of the way you win these things? >> i don't know. i never felt like the survivors being seen as like champions or something. if the cancer wanted to win, it was going to win. i was lucky is what it came down to. there are women who fought much harder than me who did not make it. so i'm not going to say because of what i did i came through. no, i was just lucky. there are cancers and there are cancers and mine was cure about.
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>> do you like doing interviews? >> sometimes. you know, if i feel like someone is asking me questions that came from the last thing we talked about and they're looking at me as i'm answering them. but that's a rare commodity. >> what's happening now? >> you're doing just fine. >> i want to talk to you about this hot new role of yours. >> johnson screamed and i hit him. i hit them all. >> that's you in broadway on "house of blue leaves." why are you blocking your ears? >> i am far worse than you know, but if i hear it, i'm like oh, what was that? that was the wrong word that i stressed or whatever. >> are you a real perfectionist? is that what this boils down to, that your life is never going to be right for you? >> no, it's -- you know, i like to believe that -- i can never hear myself the way i appear to other people, hear or see myself. so i'm hoping it doesn't look as
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offensive as that just did to me. >> when you look in the mirror, what do you see? >> a person i've gotten to know very well. >> do you like her? >> very much so, yeah. what i mean? >> you keep hinting it could have been much worse. >> i don't know. >> when you think about the worst case scenario, where could you have ended up? >> you know, had i not had the whatever, gumption drinking, it could have led to far more worse things. i could have landed anywhere. if i decided not to go into therapy, i don't know. all of these things have given me a life that's been absolutely captivating and challenging and all those things and it's
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because of little decisions i made along the way. i think i was just blessed with the foresight i guess to follow healthier paths, i don't know. >> the thing about theater that all the great actors tell me is that there's just nothing in movies or television that ever replicates that moment of curtains open, live audience, and the ability to just connect that with real people. >> uh-huh. >> is that what it's like for you? >> absolutely, it is. it is the strangest thing. if you've never done it, to try to explain the feeling of walking out there and you know the people are there to be told a story and i'm going to help tell the story. it's not my story but the writer's story but i'm sort of the conduit. i don't know how it works. i have no idea, i really have no idea. >> are you miles more confident like many performers when you're on stage?
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>> for sure. >> do you wish you could sometimes have that confidence in real life? >> i like the mixup of it. i like having the play and my real life. i don't necessarily want one without the other. they complement each other well. >> how many times have you been properly in love in your life? >> my heavens, that was a segue i didn't notice. three. that's all i'm saying. >> are you as happy now as you've ever been? >> i am, for sure. my definition of happiness has also shifted. happy used to mean something else. happy now means waking up in the morning, feeling good how the previous day went. looking forward to what i got in front of me. can't wait to see my kid's faces. that's as good as it gets.


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